H1N1 Vaccine: Tempting Fate?

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT suggesting that you not get the vaccine... I don't personally think the negative health effects will be any different than other flu shots... That is not the point of this at all... And I am in no position to presume to recommend anything...

Call me a nutter... I've found myself sort of agreeing with things that the conspiratorial wankers do... They didn't convince me of anything..I'm not that far gone... The thought simply occurred to me some time ago, and apparently, to my dismay, occurred to whack-jobs too...

* I'm talking about the people who claim to know of nefarious plots and the like here..."black helicopter" stuff...I simply have no such conclusions, and couldn't even imagine one...So sorry if I offend the chupacabra-crowd... but I don't want this to be associated...

Here you have a virus...hyped to death for one *and only one* reason after it's detection in Mexico City... It was not particularly deadly, not even particularly unpleasant.. The singular reason that the H1N1 Virus was headline news and worthy of attention to the top levels of every government on Earth was because of it's ability to mutate...

It was a swine flu with properties of the bird flu, and catch-able by humans... This is what was so awful, ominous, and troubling about it...

So we are rushing through vaccine development... Rushing through trials to get it out to the people... This to me is troubling enough... But the key to my sort of "duh moment" was much simpler than that, and is based on the simple notion of what a flu-shot is.. My still unanswered question is: Why the hell do you GIVE millions of people a virus when it's primary (and serious) threat is that it might mutate, given the chance? ....and by the way *If it does mutate* then the current vaccine becomes useless...It's like loading a biological gun... Is it not?
I received words of comfort in the idea that a flu shot was a dead virus (at least for the most part) that tricks the body into attacking it, hence building up the body's immunity...

This placated me until I looked a little further into it... The first 3.4 million vaccines being rushed through are actually Attenuated Vaccines. (Confirmed at The New England Journal of Medicine) That means it is a weak, but LIVE virus...

Now again I ask, and I have no answers of my own at all: Is it NOT the worst *possible* idea, given that the threat is mutation / adaptation, too intentionally infect 3.4 million of our most virus exposed citizens (health care workers) with the poorest tested vaccine in recent times? ...Isn't that 3.4 million potential hosts for a new virus, working around the weakest among us?

Someone tell me... Again, I have no predisposition on this...no conclusions on this what-so-ever...I just want to know why this isn't a HORRIBLE idea...

I tell you this: I will not be getting that vaccine, NOT because I'm afraid of it's effects.. but because every person who takes this is another unnecessary chance at a virus that is not so bad...becoming VERY bad...and I can't live with that if it's truly the case...

Aren't we just begging fate to make this virus worse...?

Tags: h1n1, vaccine, virus

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Permalink Reply by The Anticrat on October 7, 2009 at 3:53pm: This is week two or three of asking around... I've half-assedly asked the CDC if they would answer... nothing yet... Again...This isn't about fear of side-effects or black helicopters... Simply want an answer...

If it's a calculated risk, then it seems to be the worst possible calculation to me...Why would you you take the worst option? It makes no sense, and everyone that had addressed it seems to be as stumped as I am...

Just looking for an answer...It may be obvious and make me feel stupid...I'm okay with that...If it's a dumb question, fine...The answer should be easy then...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Steven333 on October 8, 2009 at 12:55am: I certainly have no answers, esp, since I am one of the "Black Helicopter/Chupacabra crowd". Don't worry. I take no offense. I laugh at myself more than you or anyone possibly could. I don't necessarily believe conspiracy theories, even ones that I perpetrate. I just like to speculate on possibilities rather than probablities, so I won't go into how the H1N1 crisis is just part of the overall plan to control and manipulate us.

Instead I will just comment on what I believe to be true...that every flu bug is a mutation of a previous flu bug that we were able to counteract thru medicines. No matter how many cc's of antibiotics we pump into our system, the flu will mutate to counteract the antibiotics and resurface in the future. Kinda like how some insects build up tolerances for pesticides so that they no longer work.

Some argue that we as a society are so pumped full of antibiotics and various medications that we have actually weakened our natural immune systems and have devolved into a neverending medical arms race with the flu. It is cruel and considered inhumane but the reality is that if the weak died, the virus would die with them.

So to sum up...Aren't we just begging fate to make this virus worse...? ...Yes.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by The Anticrat on October 8, 2009 at 6:41am: Heh, everyone has conspiracy theories, the only difference is what people know enough about to have theories about... Like your poppy thing in Afghanistan...it has a basis... but this post is purely the voicing of a question... I have no conclusions on this... I don't want to speculate on motivations mostly because I have no reason to believe that there even are any motivations (beyond those of the normal vaccination programs...)

My nutter comment seems to have offended a lot of people... and I *think* I understand, because people just don't know if it's directed at them or not (It's actually inspired by a guy named Alex Jones, just so you know, who has these theories for a living... I don't anyone thinking I am a follower...because that works against getting a simple answer, which is all I want, and is pretty simple I think)...You always think you are, Steven, but I still beg to differ... We all have ideas about any number of things...I could probably out conspiracy you on some issues...

This one time...I simply have no conclusions, and I don't want to come to any, because I simply want the answer handed to me...so I can forget about it altogether =)

In all honesty though...I have talked this over with a lot of even cynical people... and I can't even get anyone willing to give a lame reason why this isn't a an unnecessary risk...

Everyone so far (been asking for weeks now) has essentially said yes, this is the worst possible choice... Dismissive "intellectuals" just say "they know what they are doing"...which I want to agree with... but no one can provide any confirmation that they do know what they are doing on even this one SIMPLE and obvious basic question...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by The Anticrat on October 8, 2009 at 4:24pm: Glenn Beck did a very informative show about this, but this general subject was only glanced... They addressed that the attenuated vaccine was indeed live virus, but as repeatedly said, was "de-clawed"..no real elaboration on that, it's still the signature base virus ...

They did not address the increase in chances of mutation... Given that this live virus is known to mutate, it still seems insane to me that you would pump it into 3.4 million people who spend their days surrounded by viruses (health care workers) and call that a precaution... That is 3.4 million chances for this virus to find JUST ONE chance to mutate and all bets are off...

My conclusion is that they know it's a calculated risk... But are weighing it against the possibility of a greater pandemic...

My personal feeling is that by accellerating the chances of mutation 3.4 million times over... they are actually increasing the chances of a whole new type of pandemic via mutation with no viable vaccine ...right at the peak of vulnerability... Flu-Season...

They are smarter than me...but unless someone offers something else... No one has disputed this as a viable conclusion... It's all finger crossing and voodoo...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Steven333 on October 9, 2009 at 1:49am: I saw Beck's show and also learned alot. One thing in particular that struck me on a personal level but also I believe said alot about the "controversy" is that both of the doctors agreed that the vaccine can be dangerous to people with "conditions" such as asthma. My youngest has asmar...(bonus Lord of the Flies reference), recently had the rugular flu vaccine and now is very lethargic which is one of the symptoms they both described.

How I think it relates to your question is that the Pro-Vaccine Dr. said he would give the shot to his asthmatic 9 year old (ostensibly) because he feels the possible effects from the vaccine is the lesser evil than if she gets the Swine Flu. (my words not his) And the Anti-Vaccine Dr. also admitted that he would give his children the nasal spray version which does not contain the Thermerol (or whatever it was, it's late and I'm too tired to even look it up.) which is the questionable ingredient in his opinion.

They both seemed to be saying that getting the flu and spreading the flu is probably worse than any side effects from getting the vaccine but should be a personal choice for every adult so I guess we all have to ask ourselves if developing irreversible brain damage to ourselves and/or our children is a noble risk to prevent a real Pandemic of a highly mutatable and virulent virus.

You are correct that they only barely talked about the mutative qualities but I believe thay summed it up by agreeing that every flu virus is.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Melina on October 9, 2009 at 11:50pm: You remind me: Last year I took the flu shot and felt lethargic right after, too. I didn't catch anything during the time, but I was very tired, sleepy, had headaches, and achy all over for a freaking month! WTF? It was like the flu X3 without the phlegm and sneezing. Weird!

I thought back last night to see how effective the flu shot had been. It wasn't all that great. Maybe a couple of months after the vaccination I caught at least 2 stomach viruses, within 3 -3 1/2 weeks of each other, had 2 sinus infections (not bad enough for antibiotics), year round allergies and a few sore throats.

The point of me taking the shots was to alleviate sinus/ allergy probs. It helped before, but that was a few years ago and in the last 2 years, the vaccine hasn't done much to help. I'm going to pass on all vaccines this year and see how it goes. I have a feeling it'll make my life less complicated. AND I get to keep my $25.

I didn't like that pro-vaccine doctor. He's a FOX news contributor and I've seen him speaking on a few shows and I just don't care for him, even before the Beck show. It would've been nice if he let the anti-vaccine doctor finish a point before he jumped in with his opinions. He may just know something more than the pro- doctor since the anti-vaccine doctor is still practicing.
What a rude ass! Beck should've done a better job with that.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Melina on October 8, 2009 at 10:37pm: I'm the kind of person that wants to see the charts, how the vaccine is made, how many antennae on the virus and who his mama was. Give me some detail about the life cycle of the virus, how it's "killed" and reused, and what happens if you "miss one", who's making the vaccines,and who do I kick the shit out of if something goes wrong? There doesn't seem to be any responsibility if something goes wrong. If something does, who do I sue? [crickets]

Regular flu shots have been of some use to me, but last year's shot - not so much.
Everyone's in such a rush to push out the H1N1 and the Flu vaccine -which I don't understand, because it's not like 10% of our people are dying off all at once. Why all the "crisis" talk? Hmmmmmm?????

Maybe because we need a diversion from the fact that Obama has no idea what the hell he's doing?
Too busy going on date nights with his alpaca, campaigning for bullshit, pitting Pelosi and Reid against each other, making Gibbs polish his teleprompter,whispering in Huff Po's ear, flying in pizza chefs, while...
"Mr. President. Gen. McChrystal is STILL waiting on hold."; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Steven333 on October 9, 2009 at 1:53am: "Never let a good crisis go to waste" - Rombo Emanuel

"or a manufactured one" - I added that. ;>P; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Melina on October 8, 2009 at 10:49pm: I tell you this: I will not be getting that vaccine, NOT because I'm afraid of it's effects.. but because every person who takes this is another unnecessary chance at a virus that is not so bad...becoming VERY bad...and I can't live with that if it's truly the case...

I don't wanna take a chance on both things happening. Freaky side effects or a pandemic.
I just don't get why we're in crisis mode.; ▶ Reply to This